Help with traction control wiring and needs

[martroy]

Hi,

I have a MS3 with expansion board MS3X. I also have a Mustang 91 with T5 transmission and would like to use traction control feature. Could I use stock VSS sensor for "driven wheel" or accuracy is not good? For undriven wheel (Front), I was thinking about mounting hall sensor that will pickup brake rotor vanes. Witch sensor could I use and input should I use? I read PT4, datalog in but not quite use about input voltage and what is need to be accurate.

Thanks for helping me out guys,


Martin

[Laminar]

I'm using the stock sensor off of my T5 into a VR conditioner like the JBPerf board, accuracy is great.

[shiftin04]

As mentioned the VSS should be fine for the driven wheel. For the undriven wheel I would trigger off the heads of the studs. That's how mine is set up and it works just fine. And the sensor is tucked behind the rotor out of harms way.

[martroy]

It is possible to use stock VSS without conditioner or I could use same hall sensor as undriven wheel?

Witch sensor are you using and on witch input you wired yhem?

Thanks guys

[Raymond_B]

Pt4 (pin 31 on MS3X) is set aside for high frequency digital input which is what most use to take in a stock type VSS signal. For lower frequency inputs (like reading off the wheel studs) you can use an input like pin 28 (Tableswitch In) on the MS3X. At least that is what I am doing. As far as sensors go I really like the Cherry hall sensors, they are robust and tried and true.

Front wheel



Rear wheel

[martroy]

Pt4 (pin 31 on MS3X) is set aside for high frequency digital input which is what most use to take in a stock type VSS signal. For lower frequency inputs (like reading off the wheel studs) you can use an input like pin 28 (Tableswitch In) on the MS3X. At least that is what I am doing. As far as sensors go I really like the Cherry hall sensors, they are robust and tried and true.

Hi Raymond, because you are using Hall Sensor GS100502, front is connected to Tableswitch in and is rear could be connected to PT4 than? I'm not sure if my stock VSS is hall sensor or VR sensor? I've look at digikey for cherry sensor and they look BO. What about your trigger wheel on your DS, what part is that? Interesting...


Thanks

[Raymond_B]

The PT4 input can handle high frequency inputs whereas an input like Tableswitch is for the lower frequency. Before I changed the rear sensor I was using the stock Ford truck 8.8" tone ring that had 108 teeth. That high tooth count required PT4, but as you see the new setup has 16 teeth which I think is right about the limit of what the low freq inputs can take, but that depends on driveshaft RPM so I am going to continue to use PT4 for the rear.

Not sure of the part# you posted, but I've been using GS100102 or GS100202. One is stainless the other is the red one most see. The stainless one is nice and I use it for my crank sensor, these two red ones I had extra so I'll use them for now.

The setup for the 8.8" pinion yoke sensor came from Motion Raceworks https://www.motionraceworks.com/product ... olt-dana60 Or you can piece your own together using Strange components.

[martroy]

Not sure of the part# you posted, but I've been using GS100102 or GS100202. One is stainless the other is the red one most see. The stainless one is nice and I use it for my crank sensor, these two red ones I had extra so I'll use them for now.

The setup for the 8.8" pinion yoke sensor came from Motion Raceworks https://www.motionraceworks.com/product ... olt-dana60 Or you can piece your own together using Strange components.

Taking notes of input to use, thanks. Those hall sensors are 3 wires and connected 12v, ground and signal return directly into MS input without resistor, diode or cap?

That will be a fall/winter project and report back one installed.

[Raymond_B]

Not sure of the part# you posted, but I've been using GS100102 or GS100202. One is stainless the other is the red one most see. The stainless one is nice and I use it for my crank sensor, these two red ones I had extra so I'll use them for now.

The setup for the 8.8" pinion yoke sensor came from Motion Raceworks https://www.motionraceworks.com/product ... olt-dana60 Or you can piece your own together using Strange components.

Taking notes of input to use, thanks. Those hall sensors are 3 wires and connected 12v, ground and signal return directly into MS input without resistor, diode or cap?

That will be a fall/winter project and report back one installed.

The sensors need a pullup resistor, I run a 12v supply Cherry recommends a 2.4k pullup.

Gear-Tooth-Speed-Sensor-GS1001-GS1002-Datasheet-1075695.pdf

Cherry Data Sheet

(326.06 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

[martroy]

Thank you Raymond.

[martroy]

You run independent 12v supply or feeded from the battery? With alternator, it will be around 14-14,5v?

Because its 12v on input on MS, it wont break anything cause its internally protected?

Thanks

[Raymond_B]

You run independent 12v supply or feeded from the battery? With alternator, it will be around 14-14,5v?

Because its 12v on input on MS, it wont break anything cause its internally protected?

Thanks

You're welcome, no problem!

When I planned my harness I put in a few +12V circuits for supplying things like IAC, sensors, injectors, etc. Those are all on relays so they do not energize until key on and power is fused from the battery.

[martroy]

When I planned my harness I put in a few +12V circuits for supplying things like IAC, sensors, injectors, etc. Those are all on relays so they do not energize until key on and power is fused from the battery.

Understood, so it doesnt matter if cherry sensor doesnt have a "regulated supplied voltage" than? On the MS side, only a pull-up resistor in the harness and directly into the input of my choice (Datalog in, PT4, Launch in) ?

In the MS documentation, it was saying input expect to receive a 0-5V signal ???

[Raymond_B]

When I planned my harness I put in a few +12V circuits for supplying things like IAC, sensors, injectors, etc. Those are all on relays so they do not energize until key on and power is fused from the battery.

Understood, so it doesnt matter if cherry sensor doesnt have a "regulated supplied voltage" than? On the MS side, only a pull-up resistor in the harness and directly into the input of my choice (Datalog in, PT4, Launch in) ?

In the MS documentation, it was saying input expect to receive a 0-5V signal ???

I do not believe so no, mine are working fine with 12v.

You can run 5V if you wish, just use the appropriate pull up.

[martroy]

Finally, I've started slowly that project and here's my finding.

I've built a 16 tooth wheel that will fit on the rear end like yours. To experiment sensor, resistor and speed, I've installed the tooth wheel on my press drill. When using PT4 input, I could get 99-100 KPH. When I use DatalogIn or Tableswitch, at 69,1, it goes down to 5,8 KPH for few seconds and getting up after.

Is there something else I need to configure / set it up?


Thanks guys.

[Raymond_B]

Finally, I've started slowly that project and here's my finding.

I've built a 16 tooth wheel that will fit on the rear end like yours. To experiment sensor, resistor and speed, I've installed the tooth wheel on my press drill. When using PT4 input, I could get 99-100 KPH. When I use DatalogIn or Tableswitch, at 69,1, it goes down to 5,8 KPH for few seconds and getting up after.

Is there something else I need to configure / set it up?


Thanks guys.

You need to figure at what RPM you are spinning that wheel and then calculate the frequency generated. Then try to calculate what the vehicle will generate. For my truck I was calculating driveshaft RPM based on my max MPH.

[martroy]

Understood but that is very "slow" cause I have a 4.10 rear gear and 100 KPH (60 MPH) is not that fast. I've tested with wheel stud (4 bolt) and now, it's "working" but not much accurate/responsive as 16 teeth wheel.

[Raymond_B]

Understood but that is very "slow" cause I have a 4.10 rear gear and 100 KPH (60 MPH) is not that fast. I've tested with wheel stud (4 bolt) and now, it's "working" but not much accurate/responsive as 16 teeth wheel.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am personally going to use my high resolution for my main VSS and then just front wheel 5 lug stud "low" resolution for traction control input. Others have done it and it seems to have worked no problem. If it becomes an issue then the Microsquirt flashed as an IO box is an alternative.

[martroy]

Wondering if I could use Flex input on Ms3x board directly because I've read somewhere its a high frequency one???

Wondering too why in manuals, they are saying PT4 as a 0-5v input and with cherry sensor, they are working at 12v if I'm right? Dont want to damage anything there.

Thanks

[martroy]

Will Flex input with 12v pullup will work for high frequency VSS?

Thanks